A Jewish person’s response to Dawkins
Richard Dawkins is a smart guy, and I’ve read several of his books about evolution. But lately he’s on a kick where he’s trying to make a virtue of atheism* and it’s given him a good chance to demonstrate that he has a tin ear when it comes to talking about social groups and identities. His latest example was, well, you can read it for yourself…
In an interview with the Guardian, he said: “When you think about how fantastically successful the Jewish lobby has been, though, in fact, they are less numerous I am told – religious Jews anyway – than atheists and [yet they] more or less monopolise American foreign policy as far as many people can see. So if atheists could achieve a small fraction of that influence, the world would be a better place.”
It’s difficult for someone outside a group to even refer to any characteristic of that group without coming off as stereotyping – even if the observation is complimentary. For instance, I once told someone that every Mexican I’d ever personally known was very hard working and highly motivated – and that’s true – and I got a lecture about cultural stereotypes. Fine, whatever.
So how would a non-Jew speak about Jews or Jewish culture? This is particularly dicey because even the mildest criticism is met with accusations of “anti-semitism”. It’s hard to discuss anything where one side is constantly told they don’t have rights to any thoughts, feelings, or imagery. Generally I admire a culture that emphasizes education and community and personal achievement and consequently has contributed more than its share of scientists, artists, writers and statesmen. If you want to think I’m referring to the Jews there, go ahead, but I wouldn’t want to be accused of stereotyping.
I can, however, point to a Jewish person’s reaction to Dawkins’ comments. Richard Rosenhouse at EvolutionBlog asks; How does this affect the Jews? In his essay he touches upon Mel Brooks, Fiddler On The Roof, Passover rituals, his affection and unabashed support for Israel, and relations between Jews and their gentile friends.
…When you get right down to it, I love being Jewish. I love the fact that for all my mordant atheism I am not even one wit less Jewish than the most orthodox rabbi. There are no good Jews or bad Jews or lapsed Jews or anything Jews. There are just Jews, and that is all. I love the fact that a rabbi derives his authority not from any perceived personal relationship with God (an idea that Jews the world over regard as absurd, obscene and arrogant) but rather from his education and his years of study of all things Jewish. You respect a rabbi on Jewish questions for the same reason you trust a scientist to talk about science; they know more about it then you do…
Lots more there is! Well worth the time reading.
*(I think Dawkins is making the same mistake that Christians make when they claim that their personal relationship to Jesus makes them better people. Atheists in charge wouldn’t necessarily do a better job than religionists. If someone is a good person, they’re a good person; it doesn’t matter what label they slap on it. There are plenty of counter-examples to the putative virtue of any group: Pat Robertson for Christianity, Osama Bin Laden for Islam, and Karl Rove for atheism…)
I tend to agree that a person can be a “good” person regardless of religion or religious affilation.
I think one of the fallacies of organized religion is that most teach just the opposite..that a person canot be a moral person unless that person subscrbes to the particular religion.
Being one who believes that the only moral absolute is the universal taboo against theft I find all organized religions who consider me immoral offensive and immoral..they are breaking the taboo against theft by trying to steal my freedom of thought.
The fact is and always has been that NO organized religion is compatable with true freedom of speech or thought. Thus the term heresy and blasphomy..charges brought by shaman to control the public.
Dawkins has a valid point, though.
See this article on Truthdig: A Declaration of Independence From Israel. And consider that Israel is the only nation on this planet that committed an overt act of war against the U.S.—the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty—and not only got away with it, but it’s the survivors who are muzzled. And who are some of the players in the run-up towards the attack on Iraq? Female genital mutilation is a big no-no, but can you image a similar ban on ritual circumcision of boys (particularly the traditional cock-sucking version of it)?
You can’t tell me that there isn’t an undue influence on U.S. foreign policy by something that can reasonably be called “the Jewish lobby”. And just like the Neocons, that lobby doesn’t speak for all American Jews, but only the far-right and arch-conservative fringe.
Call Dawkins whatever you want, but I think he only calls a spade a spade.
Guyk: I couldn’t agree more with you here. And it also pisses me off when someone assumes that people draw morality from a magic dude in the sky that no one can see or talk to.
I read what Dawkins said and I read the ScienceBlog post and came to the same conclusion as Elwed. I see nothing anti-semitic about it.
I remember listening to NPR about 2 years ago and these two Israel Jews created a movie about the conflict between Israel and Palestine. Now because they are from Israel a lot of people might assume they were going to create a documentary about how ruthless the Palestinians are.
No! Instead they actually created a very balanced film on the conflict. Basically their point was this: the conflict will never end until the Israelis stop treating themselves like victims and the Palestinians learn how to protest non-violently. They said Israelis are no longer a victim when they have the funds to sustain the 4th most powerful military in the world. And the Palestinians need to stop using terrorism as a means to stop the Israelis because it just makes the Palestinians look bad since no one sees the other side.
This is my point for the ScienceBlog dude; he needs to stop whining whenever someone says, ” [...] Jew [...]” It’s absurd, Jews are no longer a victim and to not afford anyone the ability to criticize, praise, or only praise is ridiculous.
And Iraeli friend told me something years ago that makes semse..if the Palestinians quit killing Israelis there would be no war. But if the Iraelis quit killing Palestinians there will be no Israel.
Virtually every country on this earth is a country by right of conquest and hey will remain a country only as long as they can defend it. There is no right or wrong about his.shold Bitian give back he Islands to the Picts? Shoyld France be given back to the Romans? t Canada and the SA to the native Americans? Israel won the land in a war against tremedous odds where they were outnumbered 10 to one.Yeah it embarrased the ragheads and if they try to take Israel they may get embarassed aain.
MSM wil tell you how Israel lost the last fiasco in Lebanon..but if Lebanon won I dont want to see what it would look like if Hezbollah had lost..
GUYK, the issue isn’t whether not Israel has a right to exist. The issue is whether or not a group of American Jews has an undue influence on American foreign policy.