I am finding it very damned hard to be sympathetic to Kathleen Parker.  Let’s let her explain:

WASHINGTON — “Allow me to introduce myself. I am a traitor and an idiot. Also, my mother should have aborted me and left me in a Dumpster, but since she didn’t, I should “off” myself.

Those are just a few nuggets randomly selected from thousands of e-mails written in response to my column suggesting that Sarah Palin is out of her league and should step down.

Who says public discourse hasn’t deteriorated?

The fierce reaction to my column has been both bracing and enlightening. After 20 years of column writing, I’m familiar with angry mail. But the past few days have produced responses of a different order. Not just angry, but vicious and threatening…”
Kathleen Parker: Speak correctly, or build a big bunker.

It’s not just “public discourse” generally.  Parker is a well-known conservative newspaper columnist.  This is the first time she’s really bucked the conservative line in a big way, and it’s exposed her to something progressives have known about for a long, long time.  Which is: the tendency to fantasies of thuggish political violence may not be limited to the right wing, but speaking in epidemiological terms, that is its reservoir in America today.  Cross those guys and you won’t just hear about how wrong you are; you will hear a hundred different gruesome ways you should suffer and die.

Mainstream progressives play down the violence talk.  There are no progressive counterparts to Glen Beck or Ann Coulter, fantasizing about violence against the other side.  That sort of guff is far more prevalent from the “cold dead hand” crowd.  When confronted they always say; “It’s just a joke!” 

But am I cherry-picking a few examples from the fringe, as one could with PETA or ELF?  Not at all; this is Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Jonah Goldberg, the Catholic League, people with enormous followings.  In our country everyone freaks out if Janet Jackson’s nipple shows for a second, but right-wing infotainers feel (and are) perfectly safe saying violent stuff like the examples below the fold.

No FCC fines for the broadcasters in the group - it’s all in good fun.  No consequences for the police union that celebrates brutality.  And I could provide any number of examples of right-wing bloggers who want ‘oceans of green radioactive glass’ in the Muslim world, and specifically rejecting any concern for collateral damage, this many years after 9/11. 

Parker wants everyone to be civil now, and not suppress unwelcome ideas.  I got news for you, Kathleen, none of this stuff is news to us.  Welcome to our world.

A FEW EXAMPLES:

• Ain’t it great being above the law? - “We get up early to beat the crowds” (T-shirt showing a leering cop with a nightstick) - Denver police union
• C’mon, people, lighten up! -  “We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens’ creme brulee. That’s just a joke, for you in the media.” Ann Coulter
• Cry havoc! Not a joke. -  “the dream end of this is that this keeps up to the convention and that we have a replay of Chicago 1968, with burning cars, protests, fires, literal riots, and all of that. That’s the objective here.” Rush Limbaugh
• Shux, can’t you people take a joke? - “Commenting on Hillary Clinton’s recent remarks about RFK’s assassination, Liz Trotta referred to “what some are reading as a suggestion that somebody knock off Osama, uh Obama—well, both, if we could.” She apologized today for her “lame attempt at humor.”“Liz Trotta on Fox News
• Pining for the old days, Johah? - GOLDBERG: It is an incredibly poisonous situation. You know in the middle ages, Harry Reid would have his stomach cut open and a half-starved weasel thrown in, for the kinds of things he’s doing. It’s outrageous!Glenn Beck, Jonah Goldberg
• Overreact much? -   “Professor Myers: Your actions are decisive evidence that if your brains were blown out with a shotgun the collective intelligence of the world would increase a million times. Fortunately, you do no damage. Nobody subhuman is of consequence.”James B. Williams  (The professor desecrated a communion wafer, along with a copy of the Koran and a copy of The God Delusion.  He has received thousands of messages like this one from Catholics, and so far none from Islamists or secularists.)
• Christopher Buckley has had to resign from National Review because of all the hate mail they have received after he endorsed Obama.  He and Kathleen Parker have now become friends, trading the hate mail they receive.

1. Heavy stuff.

   Posted by Still Me  on  10/03/08  at  09:23 AM

2. This is certainly more than just a conservative problem, all you have to do is look at Digg.com comments to see that. But I will say, in the larger media groups the conservative commentators seems worse. But in America we seem to treat politics like the binary calculations of a computer. There are only 2 options, wrong or right, dem or repub. And if you are not all for one side you are against that side.

   At work my coworkers drilled me and everytime they learn I am not 100% democrat they are surprised.

   The sooner we learn this is a false dichotomy the sooner we can move forward and get some work done.

   Posted by webs05  on  10/03/08  at  10:41 PM

3. According to the rightists, everyone who is not a rightist should be shot against a wall, preferably after painful torture. Think Hitler would have any trouble rising to power with that bunch?

   I’m surprised Ann “Final Solution” Coulter can still get any airtime.

   Posted by gerry rosser  on  10/04/08  at  07:52 AM

4. NOT a false dichotomy, Webs.  The tendency toward fantasies of violence is a human problem, on all sides.  The open media expression of those fantasies, by mainstream media figures, without any consequence, is almost exclusively the property of the right.

   I can remember when NO ONE would have said stuff like that on the air, and would have been fired instantly if they did.  It wasn’t that long ago.

   Posted by George  on  10/04/08  at  08:23 AM

5. No I was making the point that you are either with us or against us mentality of politics is a false dichotomy. People treat politics like a binary calculation and if you say something against “your” side then you are obviously against them…

   I think this is wrong and that is what I was referring to.

   Posted by webs05  on  10/04/08  at  09:13 AM

6. What a coincidence!  A few minutes ago, I deleted some comments from my blog left by an Obama supporter who was incapable of making his points in a civil manner.  By civil, I mean without calling someone names or without making threats.  Although he was from the Left, I’ve mainly heard such nonsense from the Right. So, I agree with the thesis here that the Right, somewhat more than the Left, is prone to some rather vile verbal abuse these days. 

   Also, I think Webs has a point.  This notion one is either good or evil, all right or all wrong, either for me or against me, is excusable in a 12 year old—but not an adult.

   Posted by Paul Sunstone  on  10/05/08  at  02:29 PM

7. I know this blog was from a while back, but are you seriously suggesting that “right wing conservatives” are more nasty than left wing liberals?

   Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/29/09  at  03:19 PM

8. Absolutely not, HC.  Go back to sleep.

   Posted by George  on  07/29/09  at  03:42 PM

9. I am wide awake GEORGE.  I only skimmed this article and some of the comments, I read a lot of blogs.  You said,

   “Which is: the tendency to fantasies of thuggish political violence may not be limited to the right wing, but speaking in epidemiological terms, that is its reservoir in America today.  Cross those guys and you won’t just hear about how wrong you are; you will hear a hundred different gruesome ways you should suffer and die.”

   the “but” seems to imply a stark difference in how the right fringe is more nasty than the left. 

   I don’t need to go back to sleep, you need to write more clearly.

   Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/29/09  at  03:45 PM

10. Just to clarify. I may have misunderstood, I am not denying that, but it wasn’t my fault.

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/29/09  at  03:47 PM

11. You can find people on the left with violent tendencies, usually in blogs and discussion groups.  When it happens they are usually told to belay that stuff,  by their fellow participants. 

    On right-wing discussion groups, especially Free Republic, violent talk is egged on by the majority.  And top mainstream right-wing pundits like Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck seem to have lots of audience for violent talk just about every day.  Nobody on the left at that level of popularity, is known for that stuff.  You’d have to search pretty hard to hear anything like it from Bill Maher or Keith Olberman.

    So just to be crystal clear: violent rhetoric is more common on the right wing, and more importantly, supported at a higher level.  There is a stark difference in frequency, severity, and level of support.

    Posted by George  on  07/29/09  at  06:12 PM

12. While I appreciate the time you took to respond, all I can say is….. “says you”

    What’s next, that Right Wing Politicians commit adultery AND get away with it more often than Left Wing Politicians do?

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/29/09  at  06:31 PM

13. Thank you for your well-reasoned argument.  It easily trumps mine which was only based on observation, linked to the experience of a right-wing pundit who dared to step out of line, and which gave specific examples.

    Right-wing politicians probably commit adultery about the same as left-wing politicians.  But they moralize about it more.

    Posted by George  on  07/29/09  at  07:03 PM

14. I like you George.

    And becasue i like you, I’ll see what I can do about making sure my right wing extremist friends take you off their cross-burning/lynching list.

    

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/29/09  at  07:08 PM

15. And you can start calling me by my Unitarian Jihad name:

    “Brother Cutlass of Mild Reason”

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/29/09  at  07:13 PM

16. Thanks, Brother Cutlass, I appreciate that.  I don’t think I’d enjoy being lynched.

    Posted by George  on  07/29/09  at  08:00 PM

17. I see little evidence to say otherwise than how George summed it up. Until I see such evidence of statements from Liberals in media and from higher Liberal figure heads, I think I’ll just agree with him.

    Posted by webs05  on  07/30/09  at  11:07 PM

18. “I see little evidence”

    That’s because love is blind.

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/31/09  at  07:53 AM

19. “That’s because love is blind.”

    Case in point: Our gentle visitor Brother Cutlass of Reasonable Mildness appears unable to see or acknowledge the specific examples of violent conservative rhetoric in this post.  His response to those examples is; “Says you!”

    Posted by George  on  07/31/09  at  08:15 AM

20. Oh, Brother Pepper Spray of Quiet Reflection, I have only Christian love for extremists on both sides. As you know, my argument is against saying that it is worse on the right than it is on the left.

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/31/09  at  08:20 AM

21. Well as long as you’re “fair and balanced” I suppose it isn’t necessary for you to confirm what the actual reality might be.  Carry on!

    Posted by George  on  07/31/09  at  08:27 AM

22. I feel very comfortable with reality, the reality that truth is not relative.  It is no secret that the more liberal, the more relative life should be…. unless of course you’re conservative then you’re not allowed to live that way or even THINK that way.

    George, I really do like your responsiveness and tact.  I can see us having a long and fruitful banter-ship, kind of like Chesterton and Shaw (without the intelligence factor of course ).
    I have been thinking about really pushing the little forum section on my website.  Would you participate if I invited you for specific topics?

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/31/09  at  08:53 AM

23. I’ll take a look at your site and get back to you on that.  It’ll give you time to come up with specific examples of violent rhetoric from mainstream liberal commentators at the network TV anchor level.

    It has nothing to do with liberal/conservative, but with looking at evidence in context and not through ideological glasses.

    Posted by George  on  07/31/09  at  09:09 AM

24. Well, just know that my site is only 2 months old and among other things, I am a Web Designer and SEO, which is actually how I stumbled across your site.  So needless to say, I don’t spend too much time on my own site, but would like to make the forum somewhat of a livelier component. Feel free to delete this comment, since it is off topic, just wanted to give you a heads up.

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/31/09  at  09:15 AM

25. Hispanic, if you want to make a counter claim than the one presented here you are free to do so. But no one is going to take you seriously unless you backup your claim with evidence and references. So as I already stated, unless you can prove otherwise I would say the opinion provided here is valid.

    Posted by webs05  on  07/31/09  at  09:26 AM

26. Web,

    I understand your point, and if I have time (don’t hold your breath) to sift through the plethora of examples from the Daily Kos and Huffington Post, Bill Maher etc….  I could give you plenty of examples.  I am not sure where exactly Brother Pepper Spray, gives any examples of this being done by any “main stream conservatives” Can you show me?

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/31/09  at  09:34 AM

27. Um, that would be under “Examples” above, HC.  And don’t waste your time on someone going off on DailyKos - you can always find individuals in any group that say nasty things. Show me someone on Bill O’Reilly or Ann Coulter or Glen Beck’s level.  Someone who’s had millions of books printed and is on network TV every night, or talk radio every day.  That’s mainstream.

    Posted by George  on  07/31/09  at  10:06 AM

28. Yeah um George, but you have yet to show me where Bill, Ann or Glen did any of this themselves.  Maher on the other hand said, I believe just a couple years ago, “More people in the world would live if Vice President Dick Cheney died”

    Can you show me a similar example from those you mentioned above?

    Mazol Tov

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/31/09  at  10:12 AM

29. Usually they bring on someone they can count on to say these things, while they nod and smile.  But occasionally they skip the proxies;

    “the dream end of this is that this keeps up to the convention and that we have a replay of Chicago 1968, with burning cars, protests, fires, literal riots, and all of that. That’s the objective here.” Rush Limbaugh

    “Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran” - John McCain

    “I have just signed legislation which outlaws Russia forever.  The bombing starts in five minutes” - Ronald Reagan

    And certainly more people in the world would live if Dick Cheney had retired after his stint with George Bush senior.

    Posted by George  on  07/31/09  at  10:17 AM

30. LOL! HA HA HA! Those are your examples?  OK, nice try anyways, better luck next time.  You might win some Brother Pepper Spray, but you just lost one.

    Seriously!!  LOL!

    If those are the best you have, you might just want to quit while you are behind.

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/31/09  at  10:24 AM

31. Another convincing argument on the level of “Says you!” from HC.

    Popular conservative talk show host (and the de-facto head of the Republican party these days) wants riots.  Presidential candidate thinks the decision about whether to bomb another country is so trivial as to joke about it in public.  As does the very icon of modern conservatism.  And Dick Cheney, mister torture, well that’s pretty violent too. 

    I looked at your website.  Fascinating.

    Posted by George  on  07/31/09  at  11:02 AM

32. Would love to stay and play, but I have too much work to do. 

    Thanks for checking out the site, not sure if “fascinating” is proper, or if you are just using the term like the character from Seinfeld used “Breath Taking”.

    Love,

    Brother Cutlass

    Posted by Hispanic Conservative  on  07/31/09  at  11:42 AM

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Decrepitude

A few selected articles from the last few years. Feel free to nominate others because really, I can't remember what all I've written.

9/11: five years on
Story from a picture
The Authority Gradient
If our lives are to have any meaning
What was lost
Cold and broken alleluia
Mary Mallon: being evil vs. being an evil
Artifacts of the long-gone man
A message to Republicans
Apple software review:
Because nature isn't waiting for us to wise up

Creative Commons stuff

I tried to figure out the Creative Commons and Wikimedia stuff but it was like doing your taxes in another language. Short version: it's OK if you copy my stuff as long as you give attribution and you're willing to share what you make of it with others. Here's the little logo:

This work by George Wiman is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.