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On Gay Marriage

November 12, 2008

Wow.  I have never heard Keith Olbermann use this tone of voice before.  Usually he’s all breathless and angry and overheated, but now…

If you voted ‘yes’ or supported Prop 8, please explain in the comments.  I mean really try to explain why.  Like Olbermann, I just don’t get it.

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  1. November 12, 2008 at 10:19 | #1

    I saw this on YouTube. I hope this goes better for you than it did them. Many of the comments were just so… Wrong. I suppose that’s fitting, though. This is all wrong, and so sadly unexpected given what this country stepped up to do on the very same day.

    I can’t explain it. I can say only what I said on YouTube: I think those who are hostile to gays haven’t suffered enough trauma to realize fighting to stop same-sex marriages is probably the best way to waste a perfectly grand opportunity to really LIVE.

    That, and I’m truly sorry this has happened.

  2. Still Me
    November 12, 2008 at 15:00 | #2

    I liked this Olbermann presentation.  I agree with Olbermann, and like you George, I just don’t get it.

    Earlier this year I heard a guy talking about his book on Public Radio…one of the things he mentioned was that a huge percentage of Americans—something like 25%—don’t have anyone to confide in or to celebrate with.  That statistic stuck in my mind, terribly.  I can’t remember the author being interviewed, or the book, but he did refer to the book Affluenza.  I found the same statistic about isolation here on this page, written by David Wann, who is one of the authors of Affluenzahttp://www.simplicityforum.org/files/Denver_Post_EU_vs_US_article-12-16-07-Wann.pdf

    Why people would pass a law to to prevent sharing and loving in other people’s lives is pretty much beyond me as well.

  3. November 12, 2008 at 23:24 | #3

    It is also beyond me. Even Arnold thinks prop 8 is just wrong. WTF people?

  4. November 13, 2008 at 06:41 | #4

    Exit polls are here.

  5. james old guy
    November 13, 2008 at 07:13 | #5

    First of all let me be clear on this, I don’t care one way or the other about gay marriage. Personally I think marriage is an overblown institution which heavily favors women over men but that is another rant. I am in and out of California a lot and from my point of view the gay community has not done itself any favors in California. The message blasting from the gay community is that the gay life style is not only normal it is a preferred life style.  I don’t think that is the intent but that is the message that the public is picking up on. Slapping people up side the head with this issue is only going to make them resist more and more and the gay community has been slapping away for a while. Now the gay community is blaming the whole thing on the Mormon Church, and I really don’t get that at all. I didn’t realize that the evil Mormons had that big a following in California.  But to answers George’s question, it was more a slap in the face about a perceived lifestyle brought on by the gay community itself than the question of marriage.

  6. November 13, 2008 at 08:20 | #6

    Thanks for that response James.  It sounds like one side is saying; ‘civil rights!’ and the other side is touting their religious lifestyle as the preferred one. 

    I think the gays are blaming the Mormons because the Mormon church gave something like $20m to the Prop8 campaign plus pretty much unlimited volunteer resources.  Since the bulk of that money and much of the volunteer effort came into California from Utah, it did put the lens over the Mormon church.

    When most people say; ‘the gay lifestyle’ they are referring to weirdos in spiked leather going from one bathhouse to another to share different strains of HIV.  But there are a lot of gay lifestyles and most of them are about the same as most of the straight lifestyles.

    The tough part is; how do you get people to recognize discrimination when it’s been under their noses so long they can’t smell it anymore?

    Any Mormons (or other religious people who supported Prop8), please let us know what’s on your mind.

  7. November 13, 2008 at 08:49 | #7

    Beware when voting to limit or curtail or prevent any form of civil rights.

    Is there a warrantless wiretap on your phone?

  8. November 13, 2008 at 21:22 | #8

    That’s why I seek out blogs by people I don’t agree with. I never heard the Mormon angle.

    What I heard, and what Olbermann alluded to and the stats that I linked to seem to say is that there exists a block of voters who tend to be older, of hyphenated decent, and trending male that both support Obama and voted against prop 8. We might call them hypocrites, but we’re afraid of getting called racist. So we allude to it instead and hope we get away with it.

    Personally, I think that since we don’t have an official state church (like the Church of England, which historically was practically an arm of the government and recorded births, deaths, and marriages), then we shouldn’t have state marriages. Leave it as a religious issue, and let each church decide who can get hitched. (Of course, I realize this would cause all sorts of adjustments, but I think that it’s change you can believe in.)

  9. November 14, 2008 at 01:55 | #9

    A civil right is a civil right and once you lose one, you start to lose them all!  Voting for Prop 8 is just plain wrong. I don’t know why it matters so much for people who voted for it. Do they feel threatened?  I mean honestly, if you’re not gay why should you care? I was thrilled that Obama won, but very sad that Prop 8 passed.

  10. November 14, 2008 at 16:41 | #10

    Standard- The CofE is part of the government.  CofE is established, and has the Head of State (Curently Liz2) as it’s head.  The whole thing was set up by Henty VIII as a way to get divorced (Drive through Elvis’s not being invented in the 15th century).

    The reformation is one of the root causes of the breaking of the stranglehold of the Vatican on Western Europe.  If you look at the fall out this caused- (the Pope ordered Elizabeth I murder- see its not just muslims) you can argue the USA exists because of a randy King.

  11. November 14, 2008 at 17:27 | #11

    Heard this this morning on NPR. I think it helps put things in perspective a bit.


  12. by Last Hussar on
    November 14, 2008 at 21:07 | #12

    Last Hussar:

    Thanks for that. My research leads me to believe that we did fine in this country without state controlled marriage registry until after the civil war. It’s at that point that they wanted to give pensions to widows of solders killed in the war between the states but they had problems proving those who was married to who.

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