Decrepit Old Fool

Those were good.  Really good.  I left comments at both, but my comment on the “agenda” post was definitely “tongue-in-cheek”.

Thanks for the kind words, George.  It was a bit of pent-up lucidity amidst the brouhaha this week.

Gerry, I’d agree most Christians want everyone to agree with their mythology—most folks feel that way about their belief systems and ideologies (“Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone agreed with me on this?”) and Christians have a Biblical injunction to spread the “Good News” as well as a charitable desire to both share what joy they have in their beliefs and save folks from what they believe is a horrible fate.

And, yes, for some it’s a matter of insecurity, fear of the Other, a Manichaean world-view of Us vs Them, Good vs Evil, and If You’re Not For Us You’re Against Us.  While this is usually attributed in those Christian circles to being on behalf of God, certainly the Bible should demonstrate to them that being in the minority is not a sign that one is “losing.” Indeed, Jesus spends a lot more time reassuring people that being an oppressed minority is a sign that you’re really following God’s will, not your own.  Unfortunately, that particular strain of Christianity sees it all as a big zero sum game—we can only “win” by your “losing.”

Speaking for myself (as a putative Christian), I’d just as soon have a pluralistic society, within some broad norms (the devil being in the details), as I think that makes for a much more interesting and challenging environment; as in ecology, monocultures are rarely healthy over the long run, and when everyone agrees on things, there’s never any impetus to explore and improve.

I try not to be offended by the truth.  Indeed, I pick and choose at Biblical injunctions; I think the folks who get in real trouble are the ones who argue Biblical inerrency and then turn around and pick and choose anyway, holding others to a higher standard than their tortured ones.

I also won’t argue about the misdeed committed in the name of Christ by people to enforce Christianity on others.  They are legion, shameful, and have done more to drive folks away from Christ than all the heresies and apostasies in the world.

I will maintain that, for many rank-and-file Christians, spreading the Gospel, and even trying to impose laws to prevent activities that they believe God says are wrong, has a charitable component to it.  If you really believe that a person doing X is going to eternally suffer horrific torments, then even if X doesn’t hold to that belief, it would be cruel and neglectful to not at least try and stop him (along the lines of dealing with an alcoholic in the family).

I can understand that, and even see where most folks would agree with the principle outside of religion (where the results are much more visible and concrete), even while I disagree with the lengths to which such prevention goes, and the purity of everyone’s motives in pursuing it.

Both are very interesting as always. I must say I find it odd that someone who went through the 60s and real segregation would diminish the reality of it by trying to draw a comparison. Just wow.

Dave:  I tried to leave a comment on your master/slave post at your site, but either I did something wrong or you haven’t gotten around to approving.

So, I am going to re-create it here, as best as I can remember …

As a “recovered” evangelical Christian (now practicing Zen,) that blog entry is one of the most complete and insightful I’ve ever seen on the subject.

My own take on folks like Hutcherson (and I have known thousands of them,) is in line with Gerry’s assessment: insecurity.  Happily for me, it was not terminal … well, the insecurity terminated, but did not terminate my life.

If I am not mistaken, Hutcherson was part of Athletes in Action, an offshoot of Campus Crusade for Christ.  I also seem to remember that he was “converted” by AIA; as a former Campus Crusade staff member, I apologize …

As I practice and study Zen, I am increasingly struck by how similar are the core teachings and values of all the major belief systems.  For example, if you take away all but Jesus’ actual words (at least what we think were his words,) there really is little difference.  Even a statement such as “I am that I am” (held by fundamentalists as Jesus’ claim to the godhead,) conforms with the Buddhist teachings on the nature of the true self.  I imagine it is the same with some of the other, older belief systems.

The fact that so many Christians cannot live in accordance with unconditional love as taught by Jesus’ “love thy neighbour as thyself” dictum creates untenable mental and emotional contradictions.  I suspect this is one reason why many Christians who are so firm and unyielding end up either living a double life (e.g. Swaggert, Haggard, etc.,) or eventually “snap” from the strain.

The book I am reading now is Buddha Is As Buddha Does, by Surya Das.  I would think the sentiment of the title is good guideline for Christians as well.

@webs05 – I am much heartened that Houston elected a good mayor who happens to be a lesbian (vs. electing, or defeating, a lesbian for mayor).

@WeeDram – Sorry if my blog swallowed your reply.  I don’t see the comment hanging out there, b ut I’ll assume it’s my blog’s fault.

As a “recovered” evangelical Christian (now practicing Zen,) that blog entry is one of the most complete and insightful I’ve ever seen on the subject.

Thank you.

As I practice and study Zen, I am increasingly struck by how similar are the core teachings and values of all the major belief systems.  For example, if you take away all but Jesus’ actual words (at least what we think were his words,) there really is little difference.  Even a statement such as “I am that I am” (held by fundamentalists as Jesus’ claim to the godhead,) conforms with the Buddhist teachings on the nature of the true self.  I imagine it is the same with some of the other, older belief systems.

Given that any of our human scratchings at universal truth are perforce inadequate, it is not surprising that one can find similarities at the core even while human accretions to that tend to vary wildly.  And, of course, that’s what some folks choose to focus on.

The worst thing that ever happened to Christianity was Paul becoming its “Brigham Young” successor in laying further theology onto Jesus’ teaching.  (The second worst—though the order of the two could be argued—was its adoption by Constantine as the state religion.)  Paul—whether we’re following modern Biblical scholarship as to what he actually wrote vs. what was attributed to him—had some good things to say, but he was far more human and brought far too many personal foibles to the equation than was good for Christianity, and, unfortunately, his words have been given as much import as Jesus’.

The fact that so many Christians cannot live in accordance with unconditional love as taught by Jesus’ “love thy neighbour as thyself” dictum creates untenable mental and emotional contradictions.  I suspect this is one reason why many Christians who are so firm and unyielding end up either living a double life (e.g. Swaggert, Haggard, etc.,) or eventually “snap” from the strain.

That it is so difficult to love our neighbor as ourselves represents a tremendous challenge to Christians.  And, yes, I suspect guilt over the inability to do so does result in some being driven to internal and external extremes—essentially blaming the neighbor for one’s inability to love them, while blaming oneself for being so unable. And one of my personal great challenges is in being compassionate toward those who find that such a challenge (which is my own version of the same).

The book I am reading now is Buddha Is As Buddha Does, by Surya Das.  I would think the sentiment of the title is good guideline for Christians as well.

Christ(ian) is as Christ does?  That’s certainly what Jesus seemed to present us with.  Unfortunately, too many Christians are prone to falling back on the Law, which is what Jesus explicitly rejected.  (And I realize that the hand whose finger I point toward others on this has other fingers pointing back toward myself.)